Help! Help! I'm being repressed! Snape's patronus took the form of.

darkmagicandgumdisease:

affymeisai:

darkmagicandgumdisease:

Snape’s patronus took the form of Lily’s, right? Because he was in love with her. Lily’s patronus was a doe, possibly because she loved James who was a stag. Tonk’s patronus became an ‘immense four legged creature,’ cause she loved Remus. Even Harry thought it was Sirius. Remus’ was ‘indistinct.’ What if Tonk’s patronus became the same as Remus’ and Remus’ was a four legged creature- a four legged big black fucking dog? A four legged big black fucking dog called Padfoot? How can anyone not ship this ship?

Calm yourself dear, your incoherency is hurting me. This is easily the most ridiculous post I’ve seen in a while, and whilst I make a conscious effort not to get involved with ships that revolve around onesided “stares” and unrealistic expectations of Remus and Sirius playing house, I couldn’t resist replying to this steaming pile of ~literary analysis. It’s probably best to break this down into Wolfstar sized chunks.

I love how you compared the overdone love triangle trope (Snape/Lily/James) to what I can only assume is a separate “love triangle,” concerning Sirius, Tonks and Remus (in which one of the participants is dead, with the other two participants giving very few shits. Go ship).

Obviously, James married Lily and fucked her on at least one occasion, if we’re not willing to touch the possibility artificial insemination (I totally am). But let’s be honest: There isn’t a single moment in the entire series that features James and Lily engaging in displays of romantic affection. We’re repeatedly told that Lily went out with James, married James etc. but in terms of displays of affection and romantic love, we’re left in the dark. Whilst this doesn’t rule out romantic love, their relationship is never specified beyond marriage&baby. Rambling aside, it’s pretty half-assed to so openly claim that they were unconditionally in love and soulmates forever when the evidence we have is James thriving on winding Lily up until age seventeen.

As for Snape “loving” Lily, nobody is in any position to deny that Snape’s “love” extended to greed, obsessive infatuation, and desire to control Lily’s choices whilst leaving little room for Lily as an individual with real thoughts and feelings. If you’re going to make an obnoxious post about the relevance of patronus forms, please keep in mind that Snape/Lily is a prime example of disgusting prejudice tearing apart a mediocre friendship, rather than, you know, love. But that’s neither here nor there, because “big black fucking dogs.”

At this point, you’ve reduced me to a bundle of confusion, because you ship Wolfstar, the same ship that consistently dismisses Remus and Sirius’ “brotherly hug” as Harry not being perceptive enough to see the gayness. I can only assume that the tables turn completely once Harry’s observations are relevant to your ship. “Even Harry thought it was Sirius.” Only he didn’t, because despite his obvious emotional trauma, he’s not mentally deficient enough to mistake a patronus for his dead godfather. It’s kind of a shitty leap of faith in the direction towards “big black fucking dog,” even with Wolfstar as an OTP. And, well:

A corporeal Patronus takes the form of an animal, like Animagus forms, that reflect the personality of the caster. They are, however, subject to change if the caster goes through an emotional upheaval of some sort.

I mean, I hate Remus with a burning passion, but realistically? Remus’ “emotional upheavel,” if any, centered around his own sensitive problems. I’d be happy to accept evidence stating the opposite, only there is none, because Remus canonically did fuck all to help Sirius in ootp when he was borderline suicidal.

As for your question as to how anyone is unable to ship Wolfstar, I believe this has been covered in detail, and fully backed up whenever I make the mistake of browsing the Sirius Black tag. The whole patronus trope is rather childish, as far as ship evidence goes. That said, I’m willing to bet that Sirius’ patronus was a stag.

[Retyped, as the original post consisted of capslock only, and oddly placed bullet points.]

Okay. Well, firstly thank you for your enthusiastic essay response to what was, undeniably, a heated “feel” enduced post after a sudden epiphany I had at one in the morning. 

Secondly, I would hardly call the original post “Literary analysis”.

(For your information, Wolfstar evidence includes, but is not limited to, the highest proportional number of looks/glances for the amount of time they spend together, frequent physical touching, finishing each other’s sentences, “supressed emotions”, being the only people to have control over the other’s actions.)

Let me start by addressing what you said paragraph by paragraph, shall I?

I love how you compared the overdone love triangle trope (Snape/Lily/James) to what I can only assume is a separate “love triangle,” concerning Sirius, Tonks and Remus (in which one of the participants is dead, with the other two participants giving very few shits. Go ship).

‘Overdone love triangle trope (Snape/Lily/James)’. I find this amusing as cannonically, a love triangle did in fact exist between Snape, Lily & James so…how can this ‘trope’ be ‘overdone’ exactly?

And yes, I suppose Sirius/Remus/Tonks is a love triangle of sorts, but not a conventional love triangle as, like you said, Sirius dies before Tonks shows any affection towards Remus. I must both agree and disagree however, regarding your eloquently put point of “the other two participants giving very few shits.” I assume you mean this regarding Remus and Tonks’ affections towards each other? Books six and seven often mention Tonks & Remus’ actions towards each other. And it is interesting actually, as I can’t recall a single instance of Remus showing affection towards Tonks. That is not to say he didn’t give ‘shits’ about her, because he obviously cares for her safety as shown in DH UKpg 68 where Remus demands to know what delayed Tonks in returning to the Burrow. In fact, he sounded ‘angry’. However I do not think that the fact he was ‘angry’ partuularly shows evidence of a healthy relationship, let alone  an affectionate one. In contrast, a few lines earlier, the first thing Tonks does on touching ground is to cry “Remus!” and to hug him. Although Remus responds stiffly: “his face was set and white”.

So yeah, they do give shits about each other actually, and if you are implying that Remus doesn’t care about Sirius, hahah. Have even read the books? More on that later.

Obviously, James married Lily and fucked her on at least one occasion, if we’re not willing to touch the possibility artificial insemination (I totally am). But let’s be honest: There isn’t a single moment in the entire series that features James and Lily engaging in displays of romantic affection. We’re repeatedly told that Lily went out with James, married James etc. but in terms of displays of affection and romantic love, we’re left in the dark. Whilst this doesn’t rule out romantic love, their relationship is never specified beyond marriage&baby. Rambling aside, it’s pretty half-assed to so openly claim that they were unconditionally in love and soulmates forever when the evidence we have is James thriving on winding Lily up until age seventeen.

Ha, well I understand you are a James/Sirius shipper, hmmm?

“-she hated him!”
“Nah, she didn’t,” said Sirius.
 ”She started going out with him in seventh year,” said Lupin.
“Once James had deflated his head a bit,” said Sirius.
“And stopped hexing people just for the fun of it,” said Lupin. 

I would just like to draw your attention to this paragraph. Firstly that Sirius confirms that Lily didn’t hate James. We know that they were friends from at least a little before 1981 due to Lily’s letter to Sirius and that she addresses him as ‘Padfoot’ rather than Sirius. So we can assume from this that they must have know each other reasonably well at least. The reason there are no scenes of them displaying romantic affection due to the simple fact that the only scene we actually get to read about them being together is when they fucking die. And, let me remind you that James tries to fight off Voldemort even without his wand so that Lily and his child may have time to escape? Yeah, that’s not affection. But the pure fact is that those memories in which we see James and Lily arguing are Snape’s memories. Of course they’re not going to be showing romantic affection towards each other. And these books are about Harry Potter who was, funnily enough not alive before he was born. They are from his POV so we don’t get ANYTHING unbiased pre 1981. Or anything sexual. Because, wait for it, they’re childrens’ books.

Oh, and also, please note how they’re FINISHING EACH OTHER’S SENTENCES. Like an old married couple. In fact, this entire scene is couple-y.

As for Snape “loving” Lily, nobody is in any position to deny that Snape’s “love” extended to greed, obsessive infatuation, and desire to control Lily’s choices whilst leaving little room for Lily as an individual with real thoughts and feelings. If you’re going to make an obnoxious post about the relevance of patronus forms, please keep in mind that Snape/Lily is a prime example of disgusting prejudice tearing apart a mediocre friendship, rather than, you know, love. But that’s neither here nor there, because “big black fucking dogs.”

Yeah, I am going to totally agree with you on your first point. It was greedy, obsessive infatuation and a desire to control Lily’s choices. However I don’t see how this is relevant beyond the fact that Snape’s love for Lily in undeniably reflected in his patronus form. 
Unfortunately I do not understand what you mean by the last two sentences so I find myself unable to reply.

At this point, you’ve reduced me to a bundle of confusion, because you ship Wolfstar, the same ship that consistently dismisses Remus and Sirius’ “brotherly hug” as Harry not being perceptive enough to see the gayness. I can only assume that the tables turn completely once Harry’s observations are relevant to your ship.“Even Harry thought it was Sirius.” Only he didn’t, because despite his obvious emotional trauma, he’s not mentally deficient enough to mistake a patronus for his dead godfather. It’s kind of a shitty leap of faith in the direction towards “big black fucking dog,” even with Wolfstar as an OTP. And, well:

A corporeal Patronus takes the form of an animal, like Animagus forms, that reflect the personality of the caster. They are, however, subject to change if the caster goes through an emotional upheaval of some sort.

Aha. Hahaha. Omg, I couldn’t breath for laughing at this point.

Harry Potter is, in book three, a child of thirteen years who, for twelve years of his life has lived in a home where he has been shown no love and constantly abused both emotionally and, it is implied, physically. & judging from the sort of people the Dursley are, they’re hardly going to be waving the rainbow flag. And although Petunia and Vernon work as a unit, I wouldn’t call them a prime example of a loving couple. So, while to say that Wolfstar shippers constantly ‘dismiss’ the “brotherly hug” may be true in some cases (just cause I ship the ship doesn’t mean I speak for the fandom), I don’t see why this should be evidence against. Harry doesn’t really pick up on the canonical Remus/Tonks until she’s basically professing her love to Remus in front him. And Harry’s not exactly observant and he is, let’s face it, quite self absorbed. But wouldn’t you be if you had been battling evil and famous before you could walk.

Also I think that saying that the “brotherly hug” is proof against Wolfstar is a bit rich coming from a Wicest, Sirius/Regulus, Bellatrix/Andromeda, Michael/Lucifer, Dave/Rose & Dirk/Jake shipper.

An also, canonically, Harry does in fact think that the patronus is Sirus. Yes, his animagus form. I quote: “It looked big, and it had four legs,” said Harry, struck by a sudden thought and lowering his voice. “Hey…it couldn’t be-?”

I am fairly sure he mentions his suspicions to Ron and Hermione later on, but I can’t find the quote at the moment. But yes, essentially, there is no one else that Harry could be referring to. Seeing as he was talking to Remus at the time.

We are never actually told what Remus’ patronus is. Harry describes it as “indistinct.” I am not in any way implying that Remus’ patronus changed. I am saying that this means that we have no idea what Remus’ patronus is and therefore it is open  to interpretation and it is not fixed. Correlating with Snape’s patronus of a doe, ( and personally I hardly think that Snape’s ‘inner personality’ is a doe. More like a bit of pond slime.), which potentially changed at the death of Lily, a lost loved one, And we don’t know what Lily’s patronus was. So, say that it was always a doe, that I think that qualifies as evidence that James and Lily ARE soulmates, don’t you? Or if it changed when she fell in love with James, then that only adds weight to my next point. In any case, his patronus took the form of Lily’s because she died and he loved her.

It is possible that Remus’ patronus is a dog.  Or rather a padfoot. Let me make this clearer. A Patronus is the embodiment of everything you love and that makes you happy. This is why they’re so powerful. It is often the assumption that Remus’ patronus was a wolf. Which…would make absolutely zero sense because Remus hated that part of him (as shown by his boggart being a full moon and- face it, who would want to be a werewolf). So, potentially it could be anything, I agree, it could be a freaking butterfly, even. But if Tonks’ patronus changed because of the emotional upheaval of loving Remus, as it later dawns on Harry (although Harry’s POV can’t be trusted), then her patronus would have taken the form of Remus’. It became an “immense four legged creature”. So that’s what Remus’ was. It wouldn’t have made sense to be a wolf. So- what. A lion? A zebra? I can’t see Remus having an inner zebra tbh. Well wait. Who was there for him, who changed his life by risking the law to become illegal animagi? Oh yeah, Sirius, James & Peter. Peter was a rat, so we can cross him off. But Harry would have recognised a stag because that’s his own patronus. So- a big dog then! Bravo! So it could have changed to a dog when Sirius, potentially the man he loved, betrayed him and his friends. If that’s not an emotional upheaval I dunno what is.

I mean, I hate Remus with a burning passion, but realistically? Remus’ “emotional upheavel,” if any, centered around his own sensitive problems. I’d be happy to accept evidence stating the opposite, only there is none, because Remus canonically did fuck all to help Sirius in ootp when he was borderline suicidal.

I…how can you hate Remus? Sure I respect your character opinion, but…how?

And I think he has every right to have ‘sensitive problems’ if I’m honest. He’s a werewolf for one, and for another he has experienced years of emotional turmoil. 
And also, there was nothing Remus could do to help Sirius. Sirius was basically under house arrest and Remus had to work for the order. Although it may have escaped your notice that Remus stayed in the house with Sirius.

As for your question as to how anyone is unable to ship Wolfstar, I believe this has been covered in detail, and fully backed up whenever I make the mistake of browsing the Sirius Black tag. The whole patronus trope is rather childish, as far as ship evidence goes.That said, I’m willing to bet that Sirius’ patronus was a stag.

[Retyped, as the original post consisted of capslock only, and oddly placed bullet points.]

I’m sorry, are you trying to imply that there’s more evidence for Sirius and James than for Wolfstar? … You do know what a best friend is, right? 

And the Sirius Black tag is full of nothing but RPs, art and the occasional Blackinnon or Wolfstar post.

Also, you keep using that word- trope. I do not think it means what you think it means.

And of course you are dear, you are a a James/Sirius shipper.

(thank you for editing and correcting my original post. Really considerate and in keeping with tumblr etiquette.) 

Is that enough of a literary analysis for you?

(Source: montparsnips)